Eric N

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Eric N last won the day on December 4 2015

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About Eric N

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    Copper Basin, Alaska
  1. I stand corrected. I gave the contents of the dry variety. The liquid version has Hydroflouric acid as one component of the trade secret mixture. As gold is an alloy, it is probable that the HF and other unknown chemicals are reacting with the alloy. Looking in the CRC Handbook it reveals that silver reacts with HF and AgF is yellow, AgF2 is brown and Ag2F is yellow as well. Mineral specimens are a hodge-podge of chemicals, so there could be other chemicals reacting as well. And the other components of Whink are trade secrets. Who knows what is reacting with what? Just a guess that the gold might have some copper in it reacting with something else in the Whink. Copper and HF tends to be white and black compounds. Iron could be involved and HF could turn it into iron flouride octahydrate which is green-black. So the color might be a similar outcome as mixing a bunch of different color paints. Keep in mind that HF is really bad for organics like the human body. I always recommend reading the MSDS before using chemicals. Having a CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics around is a good idea. Used books are far cheaper than new and unless you are trying to be on the cutting edge of chemistry, older editions are just fine. eric
  2. I think you misspelled the product. Wink is an acrylic polymer. Whink is a rust and stain remover. Ingredients are: Sodium bisulfate Sodium hydrosulfite Sodium chloride Sodium Carbonate Citric acid Blue crystals Source Whink MSDS Added to water generates sulfur dioxide. eric
  3. Your previous post stated that you were working a tailings pile. From that we can assume minimal cost to extract the ore from the gangue. So now you have to figure the cost of milling as it wold be the highest cost input. You got 0.4 grams per 40 lbs of hand-sorted ore That equates to 20 grams per ton. Pretty good in my uninformed opinion. The next question is amount of ore in the tailings pile. From this you could determine the sizing of the milling equipment to meet the requirements of cost-efficiency. Whatever provides the through-put you desire must pay its way (operational costs and amortization) and still provide a reasonable net profit. As my background is in shovel-in placer operations, I have no idea what the daily through-put of your current milling equipment. But like I stated, I'm pretty unqualified to offer any further ideas. I only understand net v. gross profit when it comes to hard-rock. eric
  4. Just got done downloading. Fairly large (2 sheets and about 40MB total) and don't forget the 204 page pamphlet that goes with it. eric
  5. Water is the primary mechanism that reduces the oxides to clays. Keep in mind that this water carries dissolved oxygen, a small bit of carbon dioxide and isn't pH neutral. The same water can alter any sulfides and remobilize downward them out of the oxidation zone. A favorite reference of mine and probably out of print is: "Ore Deposits" Park and MacDiarmid, 1964, W.H. Freeman and Company. If the evidence suggests that the quartz matrix could carry gold, then I would crush, wash and pan the material. eric
  6. The feldspars and micas degrade into clay. eric
  7. Assays are done by weight. Use google and type in "fire assay". Quit trying to over think this. This isn't an assay to determine if it is .995 fine or .9999 fine. It is just a basic assay. The deposit isn't homogeneous, continuous or exactly defined in size and shape. The question is, "Is this deposit economic?" This is chemistry at the level not much higher than, "Hey dude, look what happens if we mix vinegar and baking soda." All of your over-thinking is based upon quantitative chemistry requiring technical or higher grade chemical reagents. Gold in it's natural state does NOT, I say again does NOT, have a density of 19.3grams/cubic centimeter. The gangue rock may or may not have an S.G of 2.8, but most metal sulfides have S.G. >5.0. You are dealing with a bushel basket of unknowns. Most are irrelevant. "Seems PPM notation needs to be scrapped !!!" No sir. You need to put away your junior Nobel prize in chemistry set and learn something about mining. PPM is exactly what works best. 1PPM is 1 gram per tonne. A tonne is 1000 kilograms A cubic meter of ore carrying rock will weigh about 2.5-2.7 tonnes. Ergo that 1PPM translates to 2.5-2.7 grams per cubic meter. There are 31.1 grams per ounce troy (ozt). Gold is sold by weight. Most gold prices are quoted in USD/ozt. Excavation of rock is measured by volume. You drive an adit in feet or meters. Moving the ore bearing rock to the mill is by weight and volume. Milling is rated in tons/tonnes per hour. PPM makes abundant sense. Quoting some drivel from wiki just infers that you place a good deal of confidence in unfounded opinions formed from people living in their parent's basement with no other claims to fame than the number of wiki edits they pulled off. I think it was Marcus Aurelius who stated something like, "The opinions of 10,000 men means nothing if they don't know anything about the subject." That is exactly what wiki is. A classic example of the fallacy of the collective wisdom of 10,000 fools. And once again, that quote: "Seems PPM notation needs to be scrapped !!!" Really? Speaking only for myself, I think you need to learn the basics before you start recommending changes to the process of assaying. Have you ever needed an assay done? If I seemed a bit brusque, just consider it as a natural response to: "I think the general concept I am using is correct.." No "..., which I assume they are?." Assume? "..., as an example in the Wiki article with gasses, ..." Already covered wiki "Anyways, this is all rather academic.." Then why argue it? "..., is the analysis done as a molecular (mole:mole) analysis?" You don't know, but you already have an opinion? And finally, "It is well worth reading the wiki article on this.." To which I say, male bovine excrement. eric
  8. Strictly by weight, not mass density. 1 gram is 1/1,000,000 of a kilogram ergo 1ppm. eric
  9. Though I'm not a conspiracy worshiper, I do acknowledge that every participant in every market acts to manipulate the deal in their behalf. Nobody starts dickering by saying, "You need to raise the price by about 23% to get me to buy it." That being said, banks are in it for the money. When physical PMs are bought, the revenue stream stops. Ergo anything that a bank can do to convince people with monetary assets to avoid investing in goods that have durability will force the people to keep the money moving. It is called velocity of money and it has slowed substantially. UBS has perhaps signaled that the banks want gold to go not much higher than $1250USD and lower would be preferable. And the harsh reality is the mere jawing by the bankers will go a long way to forcing a self-fulfilling prophecy. Keep in mind that very few people are debt free and fewer still own substantial assets as well. Most folks are in debt past their gills and a large share of investors are highly leveraged. These folks desperately need assets to appreciate in order to cover their debt load. The UBS statement can go a long ways toward keeping folks out of the PM market. Low PM prices are a gift. Tis difficult to create generational wealth when prices are high. Might I suggest that folks download and read, "The Richest Man in Babylon" by George S Classon. It is free. The only significant difference between the time it was written and now is that gold is no longer the coin of the realm. However, gold is very desirable collateral. Why else would central banks be holding and in many cases increasing their stash? The miners will hurt from continued low prices, but a big share of that hurt was self-inflicted. Whether it is corporate, private or government, good times bring on a massive spending spree with borrowed money. Even relatively minor not-so-good times can make debt onerous. Extensive drops in prices for longer periods coupled with debt can and do wipe out even the greatest corporations. Does "Too big to fail" ring a bell? But then again, I am not an analyst, financial adviser or Prophet. Do your own due diligence. And as the poster on Agent Mulder's wall in "The X-Files" states, "Believe No One". Or the Latin phrase, "Cui Bono", who benefits? Do as you inevitably will. But no whining! 'I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.' ---D.H. Lawrence --- eric
  10. Better to have the acid at room temperature or warmer. Haven't used acid since the mid 70's in Oregon. Can't remember which, acid or retort, that left the gold brown in color. Melting it brought the natural color back. What I can remember is my youngest daughter (2YO) got into the nitric acid, got it on her hands and got a burn. The odd part was it was locked up in a foot locker. The stranger part is her older sister (4YO) got her hands washed off and then disposed of the acid. She wouldn't tell anyone where and it was never found. Be safe. eric
  11. I'm of the notion that any gold I acquire gets sold at market lows, taxes paid and then the remaining cash turned back into gold and silver coin. Why pay taxes at the market high when you get nailed for less at the low. The gold and silver coin? Goes into the generational wealth fund. The trick to acquiring generational wealth is minimal debt and saving discretionary monies in a medium who's value is difficult for others to manipulate. Although many complain about the manipulation of gold and silver, the harsh reality is that it is only possible while fiat money is the currency of the day. No fiat currency has ever lasted long. Some famous guy said something like, "Once the tide goes out, you see who is swimming naked." Then all assets will show their real value. What'cha think the paper gold bought with paper money will be worth? Read some history. Gold was the currency of kings. Silver for gentlemen. Barter for the commoners. Debt for the slaves. What was shall be again. Income generating property is another good place to store wealth. This can take the shape of a small family farm capable of growing the majority of your food. Food is production. Production generates wealth. Small mining ventures producing what is in demand is another. Woodlots produce firewood. The problem with rental property is the renter. If the renter can't pay, all you get is wear and tear, i.e. wealth depreciation. Same goes for companies. If the consumers are broke, no product gets sold. So celebrate the fact that Yellen and company can still play their silly reindeer games. Every day it goes on is another day you can put towards acquiring generational wealth. Why generational? It wasn't that long ago that our offspring took care of us in our older age. Why should they care if you are costing $5K a month in an assisted care facility? Oh. Don't look for interest rates to ever normalize. That would spell the end of this latest experiment in fiat money. Inflation would become so obvious that the government would be forced to use force against its citizenry. That influx of illegal immigrants in Europe is all about their gravy train was cut off. Nobody immigrates for political or religious purposes. It is always about the money. When the entitlements end, so does any loyalty. If your boss isn't paying, do you stick around? Read, Ludwig von Mises, "The Theory of Money and Credit". Some would say prescient, I would just say the obvious outcome of politics playing in the market. Not too difficult of a read, but lacks a glossary. Many of the terms are arcane to the everyday person such as fiduciary money versus credit money. But once again, be of good cheer. Have a beer and celebrate that Yellen and company kicked the can again. As long as the band plays on, we still have time to do what needs to be done. Für ich, I gotta quit this sniping nonsense and find a productive claim. At least my family has moved back and is taking over the mini-farm. Oh and they are learning the business of shaking a pan. C'mon Yellen. Just 8-9 more months. No doubt some of you have read about negative interest in some countries in Europe. That is good incentive to put your cash in something more valuable. Then there is the elimination of cash idea floating around. Another good reason to put whatever monies into durables. All of this is for controlling the interest rates. Interest CAN"T rise to any meaningful level or else the financial world goes out with a bang. Of course it will happen anyway. Only fools would believe this current iteration of fiat money managers are wiser than the last car full of clowns. Yellen and company know where this clown car is going. They are just trying to take the scenic route. The actual price of gold and silver is only relevant to those who depend on it for their revenue stream aka miners in debt. Everything else is just gambling. I have no pity for those who experience gambling losses. The house always gets its cut. And the wizards of the Eccles building spend beaucoup millions backing the house. As long as Yellen and company can keep the game going, the only choice we have is to take our money off the table. The thing about pecking yourself on the head with a sharp rock is that it feels so good when you quit. Maybe a little Ayn Rand, "Atlas Shrugged". Even Alan Greenspan admitted that, "In the extremis, gold is money". Kinda reminds me of that "Who's on first" routine by Abbot and Costello. Wow, that was certainly a long-winded ramble! eric
  12. I wouldn't worry about the nugget effect right now. Consider it as a pocket mine for the time being. Hand sort the better stuff to get a revenue stream going. My favorite reference for pocket mines is Tom Bohmker's book, "The Elusive Pocket Mines of South Western Oregon." eric
  13. Yah Chris, I'm familiar with the differences between melting and smelting. I was just curious about what happens to the electric element when someone cranks it up with a load of sulfides. Everything I've read says it can be done, but the element takes a beating and will fail a lot sooner than if the assay oven is used for the purpose of assaying. Was just curious if the differences in lifespan were that substantial. No Geowizard it does not weigh the same. 68 lbs red brass X 453.6 grams = 30.8 kgs @ S.G~ 8.56 68 lbs gold X 373.2 grams = 25.4 kgs @ SG~ 19.3 However had you stated gold ore, then you would have been correct. avdp vs avdp rather than avdp vs troy. If someone is gonna play the technical, then be prepared to get it back. That being said, obviously with the higher density and using troy weights, pure gold will always fit in the same volume that an equivalent poundage of other non-PGM material weighed in avoirdupois. Except the material to be refined is not SG~ 19.3 What if the material has an SG~5.5 ? Like mostly iron pyrite at 5.0 plus other stuff? Then it obviously won't fit in a #16 SiC crucible. ----------------- The question of course being either the required permits or the potential life-shattering fine for burning off the sulfides. Perhaps no problem in sub-kilogram size lots, but 20, 50, 100 lbs lots might attract attention. Sure wouldn't attract any sympathy from the community, local or mining. That videos show up on the web is NOT ample evidence that smelting sulfides in the backyard is legal in all jurisdictions. eric
  14. C'mon Geowizard, it isn't an either/or situation. Both of you have valid arguments. A single owner/operator can tweak their operation and eat some of the expenses. A corporation answers to the shareholders. Oft times the Board makes decisions that a lone operator wouldn't. In the end, all expenses must be covered. However the lone operator just might write their living expenses off as said operator is going to eat, drink and be merry whether they are mining or sitting at home watching re-runs of "I Love Lucy". eric
  15. Other sources are Action Mining and Shor International. eric