K Rose

The Art Of Dowsing

37 posts in this topic

This is a topic that pretty much everybody should have an opinion on.Dowsing has been around for centuries.There are those who believe and those who don't. Would something withstand the anals of time if it didn't work? The one thing I have personally witnessed is that there are those that it works for  and a lot of people that it don't.I have my own theory on why that is.In the thread on 3D imaging,John attested to the fact that his dowsing rods had picked the same spot as scientific testing had,a week before the testing had taken place.In his thread on the Ophir mine, Geowizard referred to it as a metaphysical belief system.In the same thread Rod Seiad made the comment that he to would use the metal detector before the willow branch.I can only speculate about how many,if any references towards dowsing have been made on this forum before I joined.Scientific technology can be applied by anyone who is willing to do what it takes to learn that technology.But if someone has the ability to dowse, should they be scoffed at because we haven't discovered the scientific principals behind it?I'm curious as to how many people who read this forum have gone out and found gold by dowsing.I am equally curious about those who have tried but it didn't work for them.Dowsing has often been refered to as witching.Wikipedia describes it as a type of divination.What say you?

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Exposure to the unthinkable-to most-was my Moms Doctrine/PHD in the Metaphysical Arts from the Church of the White Light in Pasadena where she was ordained and numerous colleges she attended. What can I say but Mom was a card carrying true 100%Czech White Witch. Dowsing has intrigued me due to the controversary attached to it. Anytime something can't be explained it is immediately attacked and called witchcraft or bs--just because one's mind is so closed as to accept the unthinkable and irrational does that mean it truly does not exist???  Seen it work and seen it fail as NEED and not GREED driven is all I can say. I got Ray Elam and the boys over $2 million outta Drivers Flats as dowsed. Done a huge demo in Douglas Creek Wyoming campground with a crowd a friends and made believers as at least 9/10 who tried accomplished it for fun. Won over $1,000 in dowsing bets with golf clubs at the LA fair when bored after the earthquake. Saw a map dowsing demo at the OC 49er meeting by Al Mahoney,in which 11 of us went out to the EF San Gabriels,hiked a mile or so up the narrows,up a draw about 1/2 mile and what ya know over 6 ozs of oro puro. Fun to play with but understand?? Some folks got it-some don't...be it mental,moral,physical,metaphysical or eclestatic sooo much fun to dabble......John

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John,I am also intrigued with dowsing and the controversy that surrounds it,although I am not one of those who are blessed with the gift or ability to do so.As I found out in my last thread, there is a whole new world that has opened up before me courtesy of Geowizard known as geophysics. It is not something that I think I could have comprehended if not for his generousity to break it down and head me in the right direction.I am indebted to Geo for his willingness to share his knowledge with others.To any one;whether they can dowse or not ;I firmly believe it would be very advantagious to seek and aquire the knowledge of the methods that Geo is sharing with me.With that being said I am ready to reveal that even though I do not posess the ability to dowse;my wife does.She discovered this ability with the help of a freind about two years ago.She doesn't use the normal pair of dowsing rods but rather a single stainless steel rod referred to as a divining rod.How this all came about is all food for another blog at a later date.I have used her as my guinea pig so to speak ever since.I have run the gamit expierimenting with her  in every possible way I can come up with.One of the things I have discovered is that it doesn't work very well inside a house equipped with electrical.This discovery helped to lead me to my hypothesis on why some can do it and others can't----K Rose

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I joined the American Dowsing Society in Santa Ana when running my biz in the OC to learn/understand more. I sold a great book on Geochemical Prospecting called Gold -New Method of Prospecting  3rd edition by Russel Axworthy that is extremely informative. I use any/all tools in any arsenal to get as much gold as possible as 4 kids through college as a single parent is no easy task and required mucho oro puro. tons a au 2 u 2-John

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It's gotta be a pleasure, to be gifted in a world mostly populated by doubters.

 

Way, way long time ago, I didn't know I could sing, but everybody wanted me to.  From the age of 16 until 19 I made good money singin' and playin' electric guitar.  My first car a '58 chevy, I paid cash for it by showing other folks how to boogy.

 

I believe we suppress our gifts sometimes because we lack confidence in ourself.

 

I've not heard of a doubting dowser.  But I have met several dowsers who claim to control their good luck. 

 

Sometimes I say a favorite phrase of mine, "nose for the gold".  I have one, my wife's is better than my own.  I have a theory of how some modern-day metal detectorists, the nugget-shooters who consistently score gold where others fail, are displaying their gift of dowsing.

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:blink:  hahaha--o ye of little faith and closed minds do not seek what isn't on paper. Why is their faith in humans of a higher being in all faiths---why does man seek to leave a planet when we haven't even seen or explored even half??? Seek and ye shall find-cower in an unopen state a mind and apathy soon follows, It was NOT that many years ago that even the ideas of geochemical or geophysical prospecting was a tongue in cheek pseudo science,thank god for the few who pursued and didn't naysay the thoughts of others but built upon them-John :rolleyes:

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The blending of art and science is the road to success.  Chicken or the egg?  No. It's 3D or 2D.

 

Art provides for multi-dimensional contemplation.  Generally, science provides a keen focus.  They're both valuable.

 

Whatever is your personal calling, is your path.  Ther's plenty of room for both.

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I am reminded of a man who owned a campground that we stayed at one time .He came by our spot in the morning ,and we pursued the topic of prospecting.One thing led to another and we wound up discussing my wife and her divining rod.He was sceptical to say the least but watched with interest as my wife demonstrated how the rod worked.I informed him that I had found very few people that could use the rod and convinced him to give it a try.Though he had no belief in it, when he crossed the target, the rod responded in his hand. He immediatly dropped the wand and wanted nothing else to do with it.He could not believe that something that he had no belief in worked in his hands.so how could something that only operates on a belief system work for a non believer?But enough of this.I am ready to start laying down some background leading up to my theory.Russian scientists in 1965 announced the discovery that living organisms emit vibrations at a frequency of 300 to 2,000 nanometers. They called this energy the biofield. These findings were confirmed at the Medical Science Acadamy in Moscow,and are supported by research in Germany,Poland, The Netherlands and Great Briton.They showed that the Biofield was stronger when people were more succesful at transferring their bioenergy.In 1975 at George Williams Collage,my wife was attached to bio feedback machines and had extremely high electrical charges emitting from her.Coincidently she was at the top of her class.In 1962 Dr. Robert Becker mapped a complex electrical field on the body that he named "The Direct Current Control System." How does all this relate to my theory? Good Question.-----K Rose

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This is a topic which always creates lots of controversy. You are all free to believe whatever you like, and if you do believe in dowsing, you should not be offended that there are plenty of other people out there who think your belief in unexplained "psychic powers" is utter horse manure. There are lots of different opinions. Opinions are like belly buttons - everyone has one.

But to just toss on a bit of weight onto the other side of the scale:

1) There have been thousands and thousands of double blind scientific tests of people who claim to have the ability to dowse. No one has ever been able to show any ability to detect things in a real scientific test. Random guesses achieve the same level of success. The same is true of people who claim to read minds, see the future and have other psychic powers.

2) I know guys who have found pounds and pounds of gold with metal detectors and some who have found million ounce gold deposits with the geophysical techniques outlined by geowizard. Those finds are made by folks using scientific equipment to measure and see things by their scientific properties - no belief required. I know of no one who has scientifically found any gold using dowsing. Usually the claims I have heard are that folks that have maps of places with gold deposits spread all over them and they select a spot by dowsing and then succeed in finding gold. However you could have just as easily taken a map of the same gold mining area, put on a blindfold and thrown darts to select spots to prospect. The fact that you selected a gold bearing spot on a map of gold bearing locations does not prove the success of dowsing.

3) the "bio-auroras" noted above are highly controversial and are believed by many scientists to be simply a measurement of how much perspiration is evaporating off your skin. The most important thing about them is that there is no information that relates this phenomenon to some sixth sense ability to "see" hidden objects.

 

Anyway, nothing personal, but there is a whole lot of reason to view dowsing with a very, very skeptical eye. As I said, everyone is welcome to believe whatever they want.

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The language barrier meant I did not have loads of deep conversations with the local guys. My french is highly limited at best. With that in mind the subject never came up. I would not be surprised if there are prospectors out there who practice it, but no one ever talked about it with me.

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Good thread topic.

 

I have been a student of dowsing for the last forty years, and will always consider myself just a student. Most of my training has come from the school of hard knocks and not giving up. My geology training is at the amateur level.

 

I’d like to point out that success does not necessarily have to be measured by the yardstick of a dollar bill. Success is relative.

 

Over cold winter months and using map dowsing techniques, I located a mineral deposit about 60 miles away from home. When the Spring thaw arrived, I drove to check out the location. Using my Estwing, I smacked off a few rock samples from in situ exposures and snatched a couple of loose, grab samples, too. All the material was mailed off for assay. The lab report returned to me confirmed the minerals presence, but not in commercial concentrations. Was my project a failure?

 

This site has no known, similar mineral occurrence anywhere nearby, but there is a college within reasonable driving distance. I asked myself, “Maybe this anomalous deposit would be valuable to the college’s natural sciences department as a field trip and outdoor lab work exercise for students?” I pitched my idea along with a copy of the assay report to the professors and their, “Yes,” reply came back. I forwarded the samples’ GPS locations to the school.

 

Now when I think about it, I chuckle to myself that results from pseudo-science is today being used to instruct some of our nation’s future geologists in their classical scientific training. What a hoot. :)

You might be wondering, “Did the faculty ever ask why I happened to be prospecting in that specific location out of the clear blue?” No, they did not and I haven’t volunteered that detail, either. Let sleeping dogs lie.

 

 

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      Let me begin by commenting on the fact that the only observations that I have made have been with the use of the divining rod.I have never witnessed map dowsing or the use of regular dowsing rods.So therefore I cannot comment either way,much less include them in the basis of my theory.You cannot build a theory on something that you have had no contact with.These comments are not meant to be percieved as a yea or a nay,just a simple acknowledgement.I can only speak for what I have personally witnessed with my own two eyes.

     In the last two years of expierimentation,we [plural being my wife]mutually agree that neither one of us would choose the rod as a tool for searching out deep ore bodies but have found it useful in pinpionting shallow placer concentrations,hand cobbing of ore float,etc.,in known areas of mineralization.One of the learning curves we dealt with is it isn't always visible gold.But when it gives a positive signal,we always have either visible gold, black sands or some type of ore float.There have been times when all we have gotten is black sands.But when I have brought them home , crushed and roasted them; I have always gotten some gold however small amounts most times.In those occasions it is not any thing that would be in any way viable other then for expeiremental observation.Another learning curve with it was learning the pull of the rod in her hand and controlling it to recognize what would be worth our time and what would not.The stronger the pull to complete the circuit, the larger the concentration of gold present.

    Before I go forward with the next stage on which my hypothesis continues to acumulate,I feel that I should back up two years to a time when neither one of us gave a second thought about things like divining rods. A time when my opinion gave weight to the other side of that scale.To go back to that point in time when I was cast into the position of explaning to myself what I was witnessing with my own two eyes.I have appreciated every single comment by those of you who have contributed to this thread,and I feel that there are more of you who would like to make that step in adding your comments to this contraversial thread.-----K Rose

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K Rose this thread is why I specifically utilized 2 examples where ,in a public meeting with 50+  in attendance, to witness Als map dowsing and the hunt by 11 with at least 100 who filled the hall to see results the next month. Same with Ray at Drivers Flats as he was hired as campground host and dredged there for just shy of 2 whole years and told many 1,000s a visitors the spot was witched hahaha burn me on the cross. THEN he brought a 2 1/2 lbr along with a few 1/2-1/4 pounders to a Shasta Miners meeting to show off the huge strike underneath a greyhound sized bus rock that was moved with 4 floating barrel winches and 2 landbound also.All the folks at DC camp,18 or so, I didn't know except Russau Pierce and the only 1 who would not relax and stop saying it don't work finally shut up sat down and it worked once for him too as he strained to hold them rods still  :lol:  no matter what ya say, or how much undisputable proof given, or done some always naysay with 1,000s a witnesses :P  over many years sooooooooooooo funny as doors of closed perceptions never open-John

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      You know John,when you personally witness an occurance with your own two eyes,whether you understand it or not, it is awfully hard for someone to take that away from you.

Like I said in my opening blog at the beginning of this thread,would something withstand the anals of time if there wasn't something to it?Also I would like to comment on the fact that I did not start this thread to dissuade non-believers or take away from believers of this anciant art.In all honesty,I started this thread because of the controversy that surrounds it,and thought that it would generate a healthy debate from both sides of the fence.So far I  believe it is holding up to it's end of the bargain.-----K Rose

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Gold under a "greyhound sized bus rock" in a California River? Who knew that gold could be under a rock that big in prime gold territory?

 

Could you do the same thing with a buried gold bar in Kansas?

 

Repeatability is the key to knowledge. If you can find appreciable gold daily, as many of the miners here do, then you can establish a value to the processes involved in dowsing. A single find or an occasional success do not arise to the value of a genuine repeatable knowledge of the basics of gold deposits. To find gold on a consistent basis requires a knowledge of consistently repeatable methods.

 

The most fervent believer in dowsing I ever met was Mikey from Texas. Mikey dowsed everything and spent a great deal of time contemplating the meaning behind the messages he felt his rods and pendulum were sending to him.

 

When I first met Mikey he had been gold prospecting for 14 years, several weeks a year. He had never found any gold. None, zip, nada, zilch. Mikey couldn't pan. He looked like a big bird in a small birdbath when he panned. Water and mud flying everywhere.

 

Mikey finally found gold when I taught him to pan. The gold was always there to be found but Mikey had made the fatal choice when he began prospecting to go with his beliefs rather than learning skills that have, over thousands of years, proven to be reliable and repeatable in their ability to find gold.

 

The gold was right there under Mikey's nose but he was stuck in his way of thinking about prospecting. Conversely the most common complaint I hear from dowsers is that other prospectors are stuck in their way of thinking about how to discover gold.

 

I know a man that has dowsed for water for many years. He has had fair success and is well known for his ability. Of course water is far more plentiful than gold so his odds are much higher. When I asked this man straight up if he could successfully dowse an area completely unknown to him he said that would be futile. From his own point of view he would need to know, by current repeatable knowledge, that there was water to be had before he could successfully dowse. He saw verifiable information as the core of any successful dowsing.

 

Curiously this man took to gold prospecting a few years ago. He spends a lot of time divining maps and dowsing the locations he has been directed to by his pendulum and prayers. He has an ATV and several horses and has discovered some beautiful secluded places that few prospectors have ever tread. After three years he still hasn't found any gold, he is really enjoying his adventures but no gold.

 

I thought since all the dowsing "proofs" are anecdotal I would add a few anecdotes of my own knowledge to balance the success stories so often claimed. In my experience all the dowsers I have met and observed were not successful. Repeatability does not extend to belief systems in my experience.

 

I will admit that there are more things in this world that I don't understand than things I do. For myself I'll spend my time learning things that have the quality of being known and repeatable. That repeatable part is the big one for me. That's the part of the equation that allows one to be sure in their knowledge of their skills. Repeatability is missing from the equation with dowsing.

 

I am open to new ideas and in my search for more knowledge I find new (to me) ideas all the time. When native gold nuggets are discovered in the loess soils of Kansas I will reinvestigate my presumed knowledge of gold deposits. In the meantime I'll stick with my sure (and repeatable) knowledge that large gold nuggets have often been found under huge boulders on the American River - whether dowsing reveals that fact or not.

 

If folks want to dowse and believe they have a good method of discovering gold I say more power to them. If they choose to dowse in a known gold bearing area they will have a greater chance of success - as we all do. For myself I'll stick to the things that have been demonstrated to work consistently.

 

If you believe that dowsing works consistently for you I don't know why you wouldn't use the method that works best for you. If you have proof that dowsing is as effective as known repeatable methods of prospecting please share it with us. Minds can open very quickly when there is good gold to be found with simple tools.  :)

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Thank you Clay for the image of Mikey in our heads.I believe that we all have known a Mikey at some point in our lives. I can see him right now as he goes along with his dowsing rods, convinced that if he doesn't give up, he will discover El Dorado. The odds that he possesses the ability to dowse doesn't even enter the picture for him. He is determined that he can. He goes along,knowing in part and asorbing even less. Probably one out of every ten people have vocal cords that are calibrated to the proper setting or frequency to be able to sing. That doesn't stop the rest of us from trying though. Some people possess the aptitude to be musicians. Society considers them to be gifted. I have often heard said that we are all wired differently. For every good musician or gifted vocalist, there is a multitude of wannabes. Just like writers and typers,I wish I could figure out how to make this computer to space sentences and paragraphs properly. I got it to work one time out of how many? But to get back to the topic at hand. I offer up one case in point. Leonard in his blog over in the thread titled Dowsing debunked, speaks of a man that Leonard personally witnessed successfully being able to dowse. If this person was a wannabe instead of the genuine article, I seriously doubt that Leonard's account would have been nearly as favorable as it was. Now; to those who think that the dowsing rod trumps conventional methods of prospecting, let them remember that is just another tool for those who actually possess the ability to use it.In my experiences, it usually comes down to; do we dig to the left or to the right. So does the dowser contain super powers? No more than the musician or the vocalist. Let us dismiss the sounds of voodoo drummers pounding on their congas in the distant background whenever this subject comes up. Instead; let us remember all the discoveries of why things work in the last few decades and look forward to tangible evidence of what some of our eyes have seen.----K Rose

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K Rose, 

 

 


 

 Let us dismiss the sounds of voodoo drummers pounding on their congas in the distant background whenever this subject comes up.

You have revealed another problem. You don't believe in voodoo! :)

 

- Geowizard

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"Why do you choose to believe in dowsing and not believe in voodoo?"

 

I would like to respond to this off-topic opening, beliefs, but you sir, would eventually demand that, I take it somewhere else.  You're a bit too narrow minded to discuss beliefs.

 

You'll be more entertaining if you keep focused on science.

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