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diggingbar

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  1. Like
    diggingbar got a reaction from Clay in Dredgeing In Az   
    Here's a couple tidbits on the topic and I'll leave it there.
    The Forest Service tries to define what they consider to be a significant resource disturbance in their FSM.  I don't believe the FSM holds any legal weight.  
    Their definition from 36CFR 9.2 (L)
    (l) Significantly disturbed for purposes of mineral extraction. Land will be considered significantly disturbed for purposes of mineral extraction when there has been surface extraction of commercial amounts of a mineral, or significant amounts of overburden or spoil have been displaced due to the extraction of commercial amounts of a mineral. Extraction of commercial amounts is defined as the removal of ore from a claim in the normal course of business of extraction for processing or marketing. It does not encompass the removal of ore for purposes of testing, experimentation, examination or preproduction activities.
    And more from their FSM….
    “FSM2817.11- Determination of significant resource disturbance.
    The determination of what is significant can come only a fair, reasonable, and consistent evaluation of proposed operations on a case by case basis. Significant is a site sensitive term: a particular surface resource-disturbing activity in one area, such as flat sage brush-covered ground, might not be significant, while the same operation in a high alpine meadow could be highly significant.
    Onsite surface-resource disturbance will come almost entirely from earthmoving activities or from site clearance. Such on site disturbance would be considered significant if natural recovery, to a condition of no higher standard than existed before the operation, would not be expected to take place within a reasonable period of time.” 
  2. Like
    diggingbar got a reaction from Clay in Dredgeing In Az   
    Clay, you did a great job covering "significant surface disturbance" in another post which I'll paste here.  Please expand upon it in another thread when you have time.  We all will benefit.
     
    There is no "significant surface disturbance" mining prohibition in the law so you will never find a legal definition. The USDA and the BLM use that term in their regulations to cover all the various surface  acts that might require their attention - not just mining.   The actual standard under the law is "undue or unnecessary degradation of the lands" and that has been defined by the Supreme Court.
      Quote
      "[a] reasonable interpretation of the word 'unnecessary' is that which is not necessary for mining.

    'Undue' is that which is excessive, improper, immoderate or unwarranted."

    Utah v. Andrus, 486 F. Supp.

    995, 1005 n.13 (D. Utah 1979)   You can rely on that definition to be upheld by the courts no matter what your mining issue. The BLM and Forest Service - not so much. See my post above about illegal agendas within the surface management agencies.
  3. Like
    diggingbar got a reaction from Clay in Dredgeing In Az   
    Sometimes, things are put into print and distributed as fact, hoping that the masses won't notice that new regulations are contrary to actual law (general mining laws, case law).   I think that's what is going on with the dredging/NOI issue I posted above.  
    Both the 14 day camping limit as well as the requirement to submit a NOI and bond in order to mine your claim with a suction dredge are completely bogus.  If miners start to believe new, unlawful regulations are legitimate, then the truth gets more obscured… until it's no longer known.
     
    There is a large prospecting shop here in Az that once told me over the phone that it is only legal to use a 3" or smaller suction dredge.  
    That is simply untrue.  I guess they don't plan on selling anything larger than a 3" dredge.    
    For some reason, it seems the USFS thinks that 3" is the acceptable limit for a suction dredge.  I don't know how they may have come up with that reasoning, but clubs like the Roadrunners have agreed to that size limit for their members.  I find a 3" dredge to be the bare minimum for getting any reasonable amount of suction dredge mining done.  More often, it's at least a 4".  If I had the water, it would be a 5" or 6".  Miners in Alaska might tell you it's a 6" or 8" that makes sense to them.
     
    If I may.  Simply processing more yardage per day doesn't equate to harm to the public lands or the environment.  Rather, properly-sized equipment allows efficiency (fewer man hours and less fuel use overall) and one to use the best methods they have determined to be available.  How many USFS or BLM employees have any mining experience at all?   How would these public servants know the best method to mine your valuable mineral deposit?
    As claim owners, we determine the best type of equipment for the job.  Mining is hard work, if not the hardest work there is.  Don't let the regulatory agencies and the ill-informed make your mining needlessly more difficult than it already is.  
    I say this realizing that in the land of the lost (Ca), miner's granted rights are violated with extreme prejudice and all common sense has been thrown out the window.  They have been fighting for years to regain their right to mine using best methods available (suction dredge).   Those at the front lines are being harassed and cited for their "violations".  Lets hope the pending legal cases are won and finally restore the miner's right to do his job.
    Thanks for the question Gary!  I have no idea if you are dredging in Az, but you gave me a good place for a nice rant.  
    Happy dredging!  
  4. Like
    diggingbar got a reaction from DXBDave in Dredgeing In Az   
    The Bradshaw mtns of Az have received a good amount of rain and snow lately.  Most of the larger drainages should be flowing now and for several weeks.  I would guess other drainages in placers around the state might be flowing now as well.
    If you don't know where to try dredging, you might join the roadrunner's prospecting club out of Phx. (Or meet a member and go as a guest).
    They have lots of dredgeable claims.  Unfortunately, they agree to various restrictions imposed by the Forest Service, such as 3" dredge max (unless you are grandfathered to use 4").  There are also seasonal closures on many of the club claims due to birds and frogs you should look into.  I was a member for a few years and then decided I'd go do my own thing, but it still might be a good way to get into the scene, meet peeps and get to know some creeks.
  5. Like
    diggingbar got a reaction from Clay in Do I Need A Permit For Hand Powered Sleucing In Idaho   
    Great story Harry.  
    Best to use the power of the mining laws and discreetly go about your business.  If you come to the determination that your activities will rise to a "notice level" of disturbance, then it may be time to make a call to a public land official.  
    For small-scale projects,  "hide and do your thing" works pretty well.
  6. Like
    diggingbar got a reaction from DXBDave in Dredgeing In Az   
    The Bradshaw mtns of Az have received a good amount of rain and snow lately.  Most of the larger drainages should be flowing now and for several weeks.  I would guess other drainages in placers around the state might be flowing now as well.
    If you don't know where to try dredging, you might join the roadrunner's prospecting club out of Phx. (Or meet a member and go as a guest).
    They have lots of dredgeable claims.  Unfortunately, they agree to various restrictions imposed by the Forest Service, such as 3" dredge max (unless you are grandfathered to use 4").  There are also seasonal closures on many of the club claims due to birds and frogs you should look into.  I was a member for a few years and then decided I'd go do my own thing, but it still might be a good way to get into the scene, meet peeps and get to know some creeks.
  7. Like
    diggingbar got a reaction from Clay in Dredgeing In Az   
    If you want to go it alone, talk to the prospecting shops and see if you can get some tips on areas to try.  If you are familiar with researching areas for active mining claims, then it's very possible to find open areas to prospect.  That will take time.  
  8. Like
    diggingbar got a reaction from Clay in Do I Need A Permit For Hand Powered Sleucing In Idaho   
    Great story Harry.  
    Best to use the power of the mining laws and discreetly go about your business.  If you come to the determination that your activities will rise to a "notice level" of disturbance, then it may be time to make a call to a public land official.  
    For small-scale projects,  "hide and do your thing" works pretty well.
  9. Like
    diggingbar got a reaction from Clay in Do I Need A Permit For Hand Powered Sleucing In Idaho   
    Great story Harry.  
    Best to use the power of the mining laws and discreetly go about your business.  If you come to the determination that your activities will rise to a "notice level" of disturbance, then it may be time to make a call to a public land official.  
    For small-scale projects,  "hide and do your thing" works pretty well.
  10. Like
    diggingbar got a reaction from Clay in Claim Trespassing, Posting On The Internet - Youtube   
    It is up to the miner who has been trespassed against to call his local sheriff to make the matter a priority.  
    Legitimate calls requiring law enforcement must be responded to.  All it takes is a call to your local sheriff.  Talk to the sergeant and ask that person whether they would be willing to prosecute the matter.  They may say no, but if it's in the criminal code, it's law enforcement's job to respond.
  11. Like
    diggingbar got a reaction from Clay in Claim Trespassing, Posting On The Internet - Youtube   
    Old thread, but thought I'd add a post and link to clarify.
    Depending on the state statutes, "mineral trespass" certainly can be a criminal matter and enforceable by your local sheriff.
    I would always call the local sheriff before I called the FS or BLM deputized agents for law enforcement matters.
     
    http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/01504.htm
  12. Like
    diggingbar got a reaction from Geowizard in Tailings Dump Processing   
    Interesting stuff on this thread.  I would like to solicit some further comment.  
    Both mine dumps and tailings piles are mentioned above, so I don't think this is about mill tailings.  
    So, you are talking about mine dumps or mine tailings that contain good values and are worth processing.  These dumps can contain all sorts of large waste rock and trash.
    Here's a question...
    Why would someone process an entire dump pile full of junk if they can sort out the waste?  I realize hand-sorting is time consuming, but if it could be done in a practical manner, then you would only be processing ore.  Many of the original high-grade mines relied on hand-sorting.  Is it not practical today?  Perhaps if it's not part of an automated/mechanized process, it's not even considered. 
    Also, it seems that the iron trash mentioned could easily be stripped out with an industrial-sized magnet like they use at recycling yards.  You sure wouldn't want to run pieces of ore track or drilling rod through your crusher. 
    I get a kick out of hunting mine dumps and finding ore to process in "mini-batches".  It must be free-milling and at least a couple oz/t.  That is the extent of my hard-rocking.  I realize you guys are talking about processing huge volumes, so my perspective comes from a low-volume, layman's level.
  13. Like
    diggingbar got a reaction from Geowizard in Ebay Chinese Jaw Crusher   
    I like the idea of "Hard Rock On The Cheap" and think one of you more knowledgeable guys should do an article on how it might be done.
     
    Just a few years ago, it seemed like it was pretty hard to find a mini impact mill offered.  I have one made many years ago called a Cyclone-Z.  I believe it was made by a guy named Hansen.  Today, there are a multitude of small impact mills out there starting at around $400 without motor.  Some of them are advertised in the ICMJ and some you can find just searching the web.  I don't know which of the newer offerings to recommend.  It would be nice to hear from actual users of these small mills.
    As far as discussing brands, that seems to be ok here, but links to products is viewed as advertising.  I'm fine with that.  We do need to be able to discuss specific equipment, including brands.
    I also have a mini jaw crusher.  It's about a 3"x3".  Sure beats sizing ore down manually.    I found it on ebay back in 2012 made by Golden Manufacturing Co.  out of Oregon.  I don't think they are in business anymore and I don't know of anyone today making a similar product here in the U.S.  Mine was under $300 and after buying a new electric motor and all the rest of it, it came to about $750.  I think that qualifies as a cheap jaw crusher.  Yes, you should screen after your primary crush and doing that manually is a p.i.t.a., but the bright side is that if your jaws are set close enough, you are actually crushing a percentage of your material fine enough to run that to recover values.  Of course, oversize goes to the impactor.
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