Jump to content
K Rose

3D Imaging,pulse Induction,etc.

Recommended Posts

What I was able to discern from that link was if I had claims somewhere in the pacific northwest,I could pay them to do the work for me.But as for as my own education into this new world to me of geophysics,the only things I gleened from this so far was the topic  of the 2D deal and second mention of another IP option using alternating current (the first mention of this coming from the EPA link).But if I were to set up shop so to speak in say New Mexico as I sometimes do in the winter ;for any of this technology to be advantagious to me,I'm going to have to learn to build it myself or go with some of the equipment that I originally inquired about at the begining of this thread.You have been more than gracious towards me  in this matter and I hope that you continue to impart your knowledge to all of us who are reading your replies.THANKS-----KRose

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

K Rose,

 

I wish I could spill out 30 years of experience in one thread on the ICMJ Forum. :)

 

Geophysicists usually go through a four year academic study at the University level. The links are provided to give an idea of the subject matter involved. Should anyone think that they can go into the field with a black box and return with credible data that can be used to advantage, I seriously have my doubts.

 

The methods involve the application of electric and electromagnetic concepts. Having a background in the concepts of electricity helps. You understand the concept of having a good electrical contact when you connect a probe to the ground, etc. Understanding that there are companies that provide this type of service and the hardware involved demonstrates the fact that these tools really can be used to the benefit of exploration for economic minerals.  

 

Those that don't understand and cannot comprehend the concepts OR don't want to be bothered with self study to learn something new are often the types that expect that reaching into their bank account or credit account and buying an off-the-shelf, $20,000, no brains required solution - is the solution.

 

Then after it doesn't work, either because it didn't work to begin with or the method didn't suit the geology, the experience results in failure.

 

Schools today water down science and math to the point that when young adults aspire to get involved in a technical realm, they are not prepared for the concepts involved. Companies that sell "magic black boxes" capitalize on those people. You don't have to be a marketing genius to see how advertising 3D color graphics and "simple, easy to use", no brains required, sells. You can find treasure!  The fact is that I have met career geophysicists that have spent their adult lives working in the field that have found nothing! There is more of "nothing" in the world than there is "something".   

 

So, clue number one is to take advantage of the work that has been done. Fugro Airborne has surveyed most of Alaska. They surveyed known mining districts that offer the best opportunity for having economic mineralization. The information is published and can be accessed by anyone on the internet or it can be ordered through the mail.  

 

- Geowizard  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All interesting points this morning Geo.You have made the point that if I am in Alaska it would be very foolish of me not to take atvantage of the info provided by Fugro Airborne.As for Geophysics;I never thought  of myself as one to comprehend such matters.But you have helped me to realize that if I apply myself I can asorb some of the basics, there by giving me a leg up so to speak.Maybe ,IF you are interested, we can start another thread and slowly recap those thirty years of experience.Just start at the begining and work our way foward.----K Rose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

K Rose,

 

Thirty five years ago, I was a Training Engineer at Halliburton in Houston. I trained Geologists and Electronic Engineers on the subjects of oil well logging systems and petroleum engineering. Prior to that, I lived in Kenai, Alaska and worked for Schlumberger as a Senior Electronic Technician, repairing and calibrating oil well logging equipment. Oil well logging systems are geophysical systems that are sent down in oil wells to measure (log) data that is related to density, porosity, resistivity, etc. in order to locate oil. Those same concepts apply to surveying mining properties for minerals.

 

How I, myself or anyone gets to the point of understanding how and where to apply what geophysical tools to a particular mining or exploration objective is not a short course that can be written in the form of an autobiography. The understanding is a process of learning through self education, formal education, field experience and personal application.

 

So, it is with any endeavor in life. We are confronted with opportunity and seek out the tools that help us get to the objective.

 

Make or buy decision:

 

Mankind has been making tools since our origin. Commercial enterprise offers tools and we have to make a decision. As in your case, your decision would be made based on replies from the 6000 plus members of the ICMJ. So far, it's only me, you and John. One option would be to make the tool or tools at your discretion and then see how they work. The other option as always is to buy the tool or tools and see how they work. Tools work best in the hands of a skilled operator. If you aren't skilled, then you face a certain learning curve. The learning curve will happen whether you make or buy the tools. That's not a matter of how much I work or talk about the subject but how much you work and learn about the subject.

 

- Geowizard  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

K Rose,

 

Very soon. It will be a multi-frequency VLF with PI (Pulse Induction). The coils can be configured as coplanar, coaxial or perpendicular. So, the multi-frequency VLF will measure to at least three different depths. VLF will provide a measure of discrimination. Pulse Induction can provide depth to target. It's a two coil system. With microprocessor control, it can switch modes and correlate the results in microseconds. I can't advertise it here on the forum. So, please understand this is not an offer to sell or buy any product. :)

 

Thanks!  

 

- Geowizard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Geo;I understand completely that you are not trying to cross any boundries here by trying to advertise or sell your product. We are merely discussing another piece of equipment that falls under the heading of this thread.I am curious though if whether or not you are far enough along to be in negotiations for production and marketing.I'm also interested in what other makes and models that you are responsible for prototyping. Surely they would allow you to divulge that information if for nothing more than another conformation of you being an authority on this subject.If they won't allow you that much then if you would please sir could you PM me that piece of information just to satisfy my curiosity?Thanks----K Rose

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

K Rose,

 

I am planning to do field testing and calibration later this fall. I am also involved in production of mining equipment i.e. fabrication of wash plants/trommels, screen plants and automated cleanup systems using reverse helix recovery. Too many projects!

 

It has been a passion of mine to develop geophysical systems. As I mentioned, make or buy - it's your choice. My friend, Dr Skokan used an SP outfit over in NM around Silver City for High Desert Gold Corporation. You can learn more about them online. Sulfide systems are ideal targets for SP. You only need a GPS for position and a DMM with a spool of wire and a couple of low cost nonpolarized probes. I used SP underground at the Hilltop mine, here in SE Arizona and elsewhere. Simple, portable, easy, cheap, and it works.

 

- Geowizard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe that for the time being I'm going to have to go with make.I like it when cheap and works are used together in the same sentence.--Thank you for dispersing enough information through out this thread to head me in the right direction.----K Rose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The concept of spontaneous potential is real and it works! :)

 

How it works:

 

Gold is formed through a process of precipitation from sulfide solutions that flow through the earth's crust in the form of hydrothermal intrusions. Basic chemistry shows that when sulfides are mixed with water, the result is sulfuric acid. That sulfuric acid when associated with metal produces a measurable voltage called spontaneous potential. 

 

Make your own:

 

Go to Radio Shack online  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12988573 and buy a Digital volt Meter. Go online to  http://www.tinker-rasor.com/parts/hcre_pts.html and buy two of their 6B non-polarizing electrodes. Then go to Mouser Electronics online  http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/OK-Industries/R30R-1000/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtW9UaYX5J1tNgTmCkIL7dzWBzW99TmaHc%3d   and buy a 1000 ft. spool of #30 insulated copper wire. Construct a small reel in a wooden box to spool the wire on to. Install a banana jack on the hub of the reel and solder one end of the wire to the banana jack. Spool the wire onto the reel. solder a second banana jack to the other end of the wire. 

 

Operation:

 

Using a shovel, dig a shallow hole, preferably to moist ground. If the ground isn't moist, add a small amount of water. Insert one of the probes so that the porous tip is in contact with the earth. This is the reference point and doesn't move. Connect one lead of the DVM to the probe. Turn the DVM on and select millivolts DC. Reel out about 50 feet of wire from the reel and dig a second hole to place the second probe into. Connect the second probe to the extended wire from the reel. Connect the DVM to the jack at the hub of the reel. read the voltage on the DVM. Note the voltage may vary up and down slightly. Obtain a GPS reading at the second hole. Extend another 50 ft. of wire. Dig another hole. Place the probe in the hole as before and measure the voltage. Continue at 50 ft. intervals and measure the voltage and GPS location of each hole. This process can be used along a line for thousands of feet. Use a piece of graph paper to plot the voltages at all of the points that were measured. If your survey crossed a sulfide intrusive, you will see a larger voltage at that point. Other lines can be measured in parallel to the original baseline and a map of the voltages will show where sulfide enrichment and "highest potential" :) for gold is.

 

Every 500 feet, reel in the wire and move the reference probe to the last hole. Voltages from that point add to or subtract from the voltage that was observed at the last hole.

 

- Geowizard  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay Geo; I already posses a good DVM; I tried the Tinker link last night to no avail.but will try it again when I get done here. If I still have problems with it coming up, I'll just do a web search for non-polarizing electrodes.I'm sure it will probably come up that way.Being that we use a #16 stranded copper wire in PLC cabinets and DCS drives and a #18 to wire tail lights on trailers etc, I can only  imagine just how small #30 wire is.I'm not familiar with banana jacks but I gather that they can be purchased at Radio shack or some other online electronics outlet.When I lay my eyes on one ,It will probably come to me then.Thank you for breaking this down and spelling it all out in one easy to understand blog. I'm sure that I won't be the only one taking atvantage of your generosity here.Maybe next if you  could be so kind please sir do a breakdown on IP.If not, I understand. I'm just tickled pink to get this much.God Bless and have a great day Sir.----K Rose. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I checked the links. They work. :)

 

The SP system becomes the receiver side of an IP system. It is also the receiver side of a Resistivity system. So, the investment is well made.

 

The electrical connections are done at the discretion of the person building the system. I like banana plugs and jacks because they are reliable and provide a good electrical plug-in connection.

 

The world is a noisy place. When you connect a voltmeter as I mentioned above, depending on your proximity to power lines, power plants, lightning storms, etc, you will experience spikes and variation in the voltage. These sources of noise can be a problem. The sources of noise are actually used beneficially in other geophysical methods!

 

- Geowizard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Geo; I had no problem with the links this morning.I figured that the reason you went with the banana jacks was for good connectivity.I'm pretty sure I'll go with them.I'm kinda foggy on the SP definition. It sounds like something I should know but I'm not comprehending it today.I went back on the EPA link along with your earlier blog on SP and reread them some more.I have discovered that even though something seems like greek the first time I read it ,If I keep rereading it,eventually I am able to comprehend fairly well the subject at hand.Sometimes it just takes me a little longer than the average joe.I will probably reread them again before the evening is over.----K Rose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Geo; what I am not comprehending is where you say that SP becomes the receiver side of IP and Resistivity.Thank you for the new link. I will begin my preliminary read on it as soon as I am done here on the forum.-----K Rose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

K Rose,

 

Excellent question, :)

 

IP and Resistivity systems transmit a current into the earth. The SP system can measure voltage between two points on the earth. The voltage between two points is related to the resistance or resistivity between those two points.

 

SP - by its self relies on a small "natural" voltage. SP is called a "passive" system. IP and Resistivity systems transmit current into the ground. When current flows through a resistance, a voltage is produced. That's basic electricity. So, when you measure voltage, since the voltage is directly related to resistance, you are indirectly measuring resistance. Resistance is related to Resistivity when you include the geometry (cubic meters). Resistivity is inversely related to Conductivity and the more conductivity there is, the more conductive mineralization there is. Gold is a form of conductive mineralization. Although Gold represents a very small amount of conductivity, there are usually associated minerals that are also conductive. Conductive anomalies are important because they are a direct indication of conductive mineralization. More conductive mineralization has economic importance. i.e. economic value.

 

- Geowizard

 

info@moore-creek.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Geo;After my last post, it dawned on me that you might be ready to continue this off line.my reply has already been posted at your web address.I am grateful for the invite to continue correspondence with you in private,and I look forward to it with great expectation.Let me add that this has been a good run and I would like to express my extreme graditude to the people at IMCJ for providing this wonderful format and giving me the opportunity to come in contact with such a knowledgeable mentor.  God Bless to all and may all your pans be full of gold.----K Rose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back about 12 years ago I allowed the students at Cal State San Louis Obispo run some test on my claims utilizing radioactive isotopes. Encapsulated isotopes with calculated radioactive outputs were buried 3 feet down and gridded out at 10 yard intervals in a complate grid. They utilized varying isotopes to test with at different times. The radioactivity ability to permeate--and affinity--to certain metals ability to absorb the radio activity was the comparable results utilized on where to dig. Was a fun 3 week project to watch. They had gained some beta ray backscatter information from the geology dept and took it BIG and off to the field. Science started in the pc industry with beta ray backscatter qc machines for composition and thickness readings. Was supposed to get a copy of report but them lil'party animals never sent the completed thesis papers..bummer. FUN FACT-after all that testing they found the best gold where my ol'brass dowsing rods said to dig a few days prior to their testing hahahaha-John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×