Jump to content
flintgreasewood

Blasting Frozen Muck

Recommended Posts

Well I see I should have been more specific about hydraulicing.

From my understanding, hydraulicing can still be utilized in contained systems. Any effluent release must meet water quality standards. This effectively shut down most hydraulic operations.

Hydraulicing was cheap and moved serious mass. That mass and the attendant dirty water has to go somewhere. That somewhere use to be downstream. No more. Now it must go to settling ponds and either the washed gravel is moved by equipment or the pond fills requiring relocation of the settling ponds.

Then consider the permitting required for installing a ditch to bring water from miles away. I can well imagine the enviro-hissy-fits over that. Pumping to obtain the high volume and pressure of water required is possible. The expenses go up substantially.

So I will restate the obvious, except in limitted circumstances, hydraulicing is effectively shut down. If you can't afford environmental compliance, you are shut down.

However my initial generalized comment beginning with "When hydraulicing was shut down,... " was incorrect and I stand corrected.

eric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for clearing that up Eric. :)

 

Cost of recovery is often the reason good deposits go unmined. It all depends on the nature of the deposit and the situation it's found in. Hydraulicing can be profitable in the right situation as flintgreasewood pointed out.

 

I've never had issues with moving frozen muck but it's something I'd like to know more about. No real experience with anfo either but I am watching this thread closely in case I ever need some knowledge on the subject. Thanks for contributing Eric.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When thinking of trying to have a fire at the bottom of a forty foot shaft, I was reminded of how stoves were "plumbed" on sailing ships. The chimney was constructed of two sizes of stove pipe that fit inside each other. The smaller size pipe carried the smoke up the center of the arrangement and the space between the smaller and the larger pipes carried fresh air to the airtight stove which kept the outer pipe cooler and left oxygen in the cabin for the sailors. First concern was breathing, second concern was shaft sagging.

 

I was thinking more of a closed loop of pipe and hose used like heating tape, insulated until you reached the face so as to apply heat only to the face.

 

I'll broach the subject next time I see my future son-in-law the robotics engineer and see what he thinks.

 

Kurt William

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Other options for thawing shafts might be electric ground thawing blankets. Example:

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_snow-ice-removal%20ground-thaw-blankets?cm_ven=google_PPC&cm_cat=Dynamic%20Search%20Ads%20Test&cm_pla=generic&cm_ite=_intitle:ground%20thaw%20blankets&mkwid=sgGV5Y0Vm&pcrid=30931690511&mt=b

or

ground loop heaters: see post #7 here:

http://www.contractortalk.com/f62/electric-blankets-ground-thaw-69398/

Hope this helps a bit. Still winter so there is still time to consider all the options.

eric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chuck,

   Thanks for taking the time to work out all those calculations.  I need to familiarize myself more with such figures and properties of things.  They will all come in handy at some time or other.  I have a good friend who is and engineer and inventor and builder of equipment.  He devotes countless hours in designing and computer modeling for things he builds.  I'm just the opposite.  I get an idea and I just start building it or doing it and, of course, making changes as I go.  I'm a "by guess and by golly" kind of guy.  We all have our place in this world of work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A bit more on that last thread.   The simple way that we currently are developing our prospect will allow some flying by the seat of our pants.  But just as we saw in the beginning of this topic, when the operation begins expanding and changing directions toward more complex procedures it takes much more careful consideration and thoughtful planning or you're never going to get to square one.  I think this is very evident with the Gold Rush crews.  They rush into "bigger and better" seemingly without much of a plan. 

And they pay for their foolhardiness.  I'm trying to avoid those pitfalls, especially since I don't have a deep pocket outfit backing me up if I fall on my face.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, after talking with my partner this evening I'm back looking into the possibility of blasting and stripping with a dragline and dozer.  I forgot that all that work would be done beginning with freezup and possibly continuing on into mid spring.  A cut 100' x 200' would be made basically straight down to bed rock.  I'm surmising that we would blast a 20' x 100' x 10' thick section, stack that material, and continue that process down to just above the pay gravel.  We might want to consider steam thawing the last section as it would contain bones and tusks.  The pay would be removed and stacked for processing in the summer.  Then back up the dragline and take out the adjoining 100' x 20' cut.  After that, move the dragline downstream and across valley to take the cut next to the first one.  I'm assuming the dragline would begin backfilling into the first cut, but possibly the overburden would continue to be stacked till we started into the 5th cut to keep the dozer far enough away from the material being replaced into the first cut.  I may be totally out of whack here but it's good for me to try to get a good sense of what might take place.

  As for drilling and blasting, I'm still figuring 10' spacing for hole pattern with 2" holes 10' deep.  With those numbers my calculations come out to 523 cu. ft, or 26,150 lbs.of anfo prills per cut.  Now I need to get a cost per ton of anfo.  BTW, the dragline has a 120' boom with a 6 yd bucket.  It would take approximately 30 hours in a perfect world to remove one cut, 60 hours, or one week for a full 200' x 100'.  If we took off January and February, we could still get in 20 to 26 weeks of stripping before things began to thaw.  That comes out to 96,300 cu. yds of pay [8' of gravel and 2' of bed rock].  At that rate there would be enough pay stacked to take a full 100 day mining season to run using a 100 yd/ hour wash plant.  Maybe I'd better get to bed...that all sounds pretty wild and crazy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×