Do I Need A Permit For Hand Powered Sleucing In Idaho

[Jimmy10 4]

I just bought a claim in Idaho, North Central, Clearwater Nat. Forest BLM land

I am trying to find out what kind of permit if any needed to prospect on the claim.

All I am seeing is info on Dredging permit requirements, I don't want to get out there and find out I need a permit.

 

Also, I was told that to use a high banker I need to run the tailings into a depression so the water will filter into the stream, is this correct?

Was also told this is a grey area.

 

I would appreciate any info, if anyone could please help.

 

 

Thanks

 

 

 

[Underburden 13]

I'll address the issue that you put in the title of your post.

 

Equipment that is powered by human strength (non-motorized) is legal in any water, any time per the Deputy Atty General for Natural Resources and IDWR.

 

If you are running a highbanker in an upland location, obviously you are away from the creek, so IDWR says no permit required, BUT they recommend a Water Rights Permit to draw water from the creek to feed your upland located highbanker.

 

If you're trying to run a highbanker right next to the creek with your discharge returning directly to the creek, however you filter it through the grass, etc, is a gray area. In that case, I'd seek forgiveness rather than permission.

Bob

[Jimmy10 4]

Thanks Bob,

 

I guess I will live in the grey area than.  I kind of know how the government works as I did 20 years in the Military (Navy), I guess some things don't change.

I won't be too hidden though my claim is right off the road, easy access.

[Geowizard 122]

Prospecting and mining in the National Forest is controlled by the District Ranger.

 

- Geowizard

[Harry Lipke 13]

I'll agree that the District Ranger is "one" of the governing authorities. But, I see no reason that "any planned use should be discussed with the District Ranger".

You can certainly prospect AND mine without asking. There are already regulations in place that you can review without going to the District Ranger.

If the Ranger feels that you are doing something that may have an adverse affect on the forest resources, he/she will require that you file a Notice of Intent.

I've done the "meet with the Ranger" before and it was a joke. My intent was to sluice an existing pile(probably 50 CY) of creek gravel into an existing hole.(both left by a past miner)

When 3 vehicles and seven people showed up, I changed my strategy. I told them that I wanted to do some sampling with a shovel and a 5 gallon bucket. Whoa!!! "We need to do a detailed study on each site for arch., cultural, historical, endangered, etc...etc.... And notice needs to be sent to NOOA and it will probably be a year before they can review it".

Well, I told them we had better get started locating these sites then. (The "5 gallon sampling" was only to get their reaction.)

The Ranger asked me how many samples I wanted to take. I said "as long as I'm going to have to jump through the hoops, let's do about 500 throughout the claim". He said "500?". I said "yeah, about 500". He paused a moment and then asked if he could talk to his other members. They chatted a few minutes and he came back and said that they felt that I could probably do my sampling without bothering anything. They didn't want to do the "reports" that they had tried to scare me with. No more problems.....

[diggingbar 13]

Great story Harry.  

Best to use the power of the mining laws and discreetly go about your business.  If you come to the determination that your activities will rise to a "notice level" of disturbance, then it may be time to make a call to a public land official.  

For small-scale projects,  "hide and do your thing" works pretty well.

[Jimmy10 4]

Thanks Geo Wizard, Harry, and Diggingbar.

 

I will play it by ear then, No wonder our government cannot work together, there are so many laws that contradict other laws.    

[Geowizard 122]

There's actually a reason;

 

The CFR's cover the "National Forest System".

 

- Geowizard 

[Harry Lipke 13]

Here are what I believe to be current FS regulations for mining:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/36/part-228/subpart-A

This is the section that applies ... https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/36/228.4

"should I ask or not?"

Note that 228.4(a)(1)(ii) refers to non motorized hand sluicing...

[Jimmy10 4]

Ok actually I don't see anywhere in the laws that I have to submit a LOI to visit my claim and do some panning, prospecting areas of my claim as long as I am being a good steward of the land. 

 

Just as everyday driving, sometimes I don't use my signal when turning, if no one is behind or in front, sometimes I don't make a complete stop at a stop sign.

Does that make me a bad driver?

 

Just like when a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it does it make a sound, YES it does.

 

Now does that tree that fell in the woods impact the environment, YES it does. But in a good way, animal, plant life, insects, and people also benefit from the death of that tree.

 

The negative impact of that tree falling is the increased chance of a forest fire, But then the argument is' does fire cause a negative impact on the environment, as it is very beneficial to the to the environment.

 

So then is it not that the human is the only one negatively impacted if they happen to have a home or business in that area affected by the fire.

  

So back to the original question, Do I need a permit to go to my claim and prospect it using hand operated prospecting tools: A: no

 

Do I need a Permit to set up a high bank operation, using a motorized/battery operated means of getting the water from the creek to the high banker:  A: yes/no

 

Do I need to submit a LOI to the BLM Land Manager to enter and prospect my claim Hand operated machinery only:  A: NO

 

 

How did I do? 

 

 

 

     .   

[Underburden 13]

Ya did good

[Geowizard 122]

Be careful and good luck!

 

- Geowizard

[Jimmy10 4]

Geo-  Whoa.  I guess I should come clean, I am new to this whole thing, like I said I just bought a claim in Idaho, I have never owned a claim before, I am a GREENHORN even though I am 56 years old, 20 years in the service, 10 years in the coal mines, and built a few homes in my lifetime.

 

Having worked in the coal mines, (I know it is not gold mining) we had to deal with the feds and the state all of the time, there was always grey areas as there is I am finding out on the surface also.

 

I am not saying I am going to Idaho and rape the land and the heck with the laws and rules that are put in place for the protection of all of our rights. That is what I am doing here, I want to be a good steward to the land have a long awaited vacation and have a little fun.  But my intention is NOT to bring negative attention to the gold mining process.

 

Which is exactly why I am here I want to learn from some experience miners, which I believe you are an experienced miner, as you are in all the threads I have read and it seems that you have a vast knowledge of all of the topics.

 

Having said that I hope you understand that I am not here to get with like minded people and am going to do what I want anyway.

 

As I have stated previously the laws are very vague in their writing, what info you can find on this vast WWW. it is so unclear I thought I should talk to some people who have been there.

 

I have watched many videos on gold mining trying to find out info on the subject, there is nothing I could find. so here I am.

 

My plan is to visit my claim this year, prospect, with hand panning techniques, see if there is any gold in the creek and which with what I have been able to find out I think there is.  Next year I will permit for small dredging operation, LOI, with all the people I am supposed to pay my fees etc. 

 

I am also thinking of relocating to the area if I find gold or not. And maybe apply to be forest fire fighter, I see that they are looking for ex military.  As for being too old I don't know, but I work most 20 year old's in the dirt.

 

 

Jim.

[Harry Lipke 13]

comment edited/deleted

[Geowizard 122]

Jim,

 

I wish you the best of luck in your prospecting!

 

- Geowizard 

[Underburden 13]

Jimmy10, are more confused or less confused now?

[Rod Seiad 28]

I believe it's now or never, Jimmy.  Your personal circumstances are above reproach.  Go do your prospecting with confidence.

 

The ways of the authorities today are way, way over the top.  If you ask them for permission to prospect, you'll be denied.  I know you can stealth your way along while enjoying your claim.

 

My main point is.....enjoy yourself we may entirely lose the ability to do what you can now still do.

[Jimmy10 4]

Underburden, less because it forced me to do some more extensive research

 

Geo, I totally get it.

 

And I will enjoy myself while I still can.

 

I hope it don't offend anyone, but our liberties are being taken away at a faster rate than ever, and all I can say is God help us all.  

[diggingbar 13]

Jimmy10, looks like you are able to filter through the nonsense and determine the truth for yourself.  

 

An understanding of the mining laws is most important.  There are specific rights given to the locator of a valuable mineral deposit.  

 

Interesting point about your time and liberty.  I say go ahead and do your prospecting while you can and continue to research the topic in order to support your rights.

 

I am hoping the member Clay will chime in on this thread.

[Jimmy10 4]

Harry, I wish your comment had not been deleted, I can only but wonder what it was now. 

 

Thanks for the info

[Harry Lipke 13]

I deleted it myself. At the moment I could not validate what I wanted to say or I would have left it there.