Gambrinus 4 Report post Posted September 5, 2015 Geowizard You did a great job of explaining the same type of scenario, that i just described. But covering the same ground again, seems like a silly waste of time for a wizard, and redundant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geowizard 122 Report post Posted September 5, 2015 Gambrinus, It's called "discussion". Often times members of a forum have similar experience and that experience supports comments made by other members. Things that seem silly or redundant to "really smart people" like yourself may reinforce a concept and help others to understand. - Geowizard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reno Chris 101 Report post Posted September 9, 2015 Except on an extremely tiny scale, smelting your own ore is not an option for US miners. The process emits lots of pollution unless you control it with pollution control devices. Emission control devices and the necessary permits are extremely expensive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geowizard 122 Report post Posted September 9, 2015 Assay ovens; Assay ovens are routinely used for smelting batches of precious metal concentrates. - Geowizard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eric N 22 Report post Posted September 9, 2015 Admittedly smelting in outside my experience, but I have read a lot. One thing that struck me about the use of electric assay ovens and sulfides was the driving off of the SO2 which attacked the nichrome wire. Though the books said it could be done, it was recommended to not make a practice of it. Assaying only melts out 29+ grams at a time, which should be worth it as a smelter if you were getting a few grams of PMs per melt against the cost of replacing the heating element. But like I stated earlier, smelting is outside my experience. I just sell to the refiner and avoid the limited ROI of doing it myself. Comments? I get my nichrome wire from: jacobs-online.biz he also has a nichrome wire gauge/amperage/temp calculator online as well. eric Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geowizard 122 Report post Posted September 9, 2015 Fireware; Check out fireware at prospecting shops like A&B Prospecting or Legend - What do you suppose customers use a #16 Silica Carbide Crucible for? It will hold 68 pounds of red brass. - Geowizard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eric N 22 Report post Posted September 9, 2015 Other sources are Action Mining and Shor International. eric Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reno Chris 101 Report post Posted September 9, 2015 Admittedly smelting in outside my experience, but I have read a lot. Eric - it seems like you are not alone in that regard. Some have not even read a lot. Melting placer gold and smelting metals out of sulfides are two very, very different things. Although melting and smelting are very close in terms of spelling the words, they are not close in terms of chemical reactions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geowizard 122 Report post Posted September 13, 2015 Precious metals can be smelted on a small scale in 68 pound lots in an off-the-shelf furnace. Been going on for a long time. - Geowizard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reno Chris 101 Report post Posted September 13, 2015 So your "precious metals" have the same density as brass??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geowizard 122 Report post Posted September 13, 2015 Chris, FYI, 68 pounds of Red Brass weighs the same as 68 pounds of gold. If it will hold 68 pounds of Red Brass - then it will hold 68 pounds of gold. That's approximately 991.7 troy ounces of gold. Note: it's also approximately 991.7 troy ounces of Red Brass. - Geowizard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geowizard 122 Report post Posted September 13, 2015 Make or buy decision; Anyone that is interested in smelting has the option of making or buying a furnace that is capable of smelting. - Geowizard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geowizard 122 Report post Posted September 13, 2015 Clay furnaces; The clay furnaces used by Spanish Explorers were fired using mesquite. - Geowizard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geowizard 122 Report post Posted September 13, 2015 Cochran coke ovens; In the early 1900's, settlers in Arizona that mined near Florence, used coke ovens to produce coke for smelting copper, silver and gold. - Geowizard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reno Chris 101 Report post Posted September 13, 2015 Rudimentary ovens can be constructed from refractory clay. Early Spanishexplorers constructed smelting ovens in southern Arizona to recover silver that was shipped to Spain. Not everything possible is legal. Not everything legal in 1715 is still legal in 2015. An interesting bit of history, but not something for modern day miners. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geowizard 122 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 It's an International Forum; People all over the WORLD read this forum. - Geowizard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eric N 22 Report post Posted September 15, 2015 Yah Chris, I'm familiar with the differences between melting and smelting. I was just curious about what happens to the electric element when someone cranks it up with a load of sulfides. Everything I've read says it can be done, but the element takes a beating and will fail a lot sooner than if the assay oven is used for the purpose of assaying. Was just curious if the differences in lifespan were that substantial. 68 pounds of Red Brass weighs the same as 68 pounds of gold. If itwill hold 68 pounds of Red Brass - then it will hold 68 pounds of gold. No Geowizard it does not weigh the same. 68 lbs red brass X 453.6 grams = 30.8 kgs @ S.G~ 8.56 68 lbs gold X 373.2 grams = 25.4 kgs @ SG~ 19.3 However had you stated gold ore, then you would have been correct. avdp vs avdp rather than avdp vs troy. If someone is gonna play the technical, then be prepared to get it back. That being said, obviously with the higher density and using troy weights, pure gold will always fit in the same volume that an equivalent poundage of other non-PGM material weighed in avoirdupois. Except the material to be refined is not SG~ 19.3 What if the material has an SG~5.5 ? Like mostly iron pyrite at 5.0 plus other stuff? Then it obviously won't fit in a #16 SiC crucible. ----------------- The question of course being either the required permits or the potential life-shattering fine for burning off the sulfides. Perhaps no problem in sub-kilogram size lots, but 20, 50, 100 lbs lots might attract attention. Sure wouldn't attract any sympathy from the community, local or mining. That videos show up on the web is NOT ample evidence that smelting sulfides in the backyard is legal in all jurisdictions. eric Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geowizard 122 Report post Posted September 15, 2015 68 pounds avdp of molten red brass = 68 pounds avdp (991.67 troy ounces) of molten gold. I would suggest not to worry about TRIVIAL costs in smelting precious metals. - Geowizard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geowizard 122 Report post Posted September 15, 2015 Regulations; Every jurisdiction is loaded with regulations on almost everything we do. - Geowizard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reno Chris 101 Report post Posted September 15, 2015 Geo, do you have any idea what 1 MM BTU is? It is a tiny amount of fuel input. While few homes have furnaces this large, many smaller commercial buildings including offices, hotels and grocery stores have heating furnaces greater than 1 MM BTU. I would urge you to speak only on topics of which you have some knowledge. Otherwise your odd statements confuse other miners. Earlier this month, I said that "Except on an extremely tiny scale, smelting your own ore is not an option for US miners." What I said above is very true, in spite of your efforts to obfuscate and confuse the issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geowizard 122 Report post Posted September 15, 2015 Vcella is a well known manufacturer of assay ovens. Do the math; The largest Kiln/oven made by Vcella is the Model 200. It is a 25.68 Kilowatt oven. Conversion of BTU's to Kilowatt-hours; 1 Million BTU = 293 Kilowatt-hours. That's equivalent to running MORE THAN TEN of the largest ovens available for one hour. Engineering requires an understanding of mathematics. Smelting is obviously an option for the small miner. - Geowizard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cobalt Northstar Report post Posted February 14, 2016 Hello to all forum participants. Sulphur dioxide is of course bad. And why no one suggested using acid, sulfuric or nitric decomposition of sulfides? There is still using bioleaching bacteria. I apologize for the Google translator. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
